Chevy VS. Dodge VS. Ford

Okay, look this is not meant to be a huge, fifty page long, debate thread....LOL.....


Here is what I am after. Probably this comming summer, I am planning on buying myself another 3/4 ton truck. I absolutely loooovvvveeedddd my F250 that I had, and if I could, I would buy that truck back..... But that is not going to happen.

So I am going to shop substantially for the "right" truck. I am looking at all three brands equally right now. never mind that I get a rediculous discount with Dodge as an employee.... lol...

I have always like the Ford SD series for several reasons, and where I initially started in my search. but I am not going to rule anything out as of right now. I am looking for, (and this should make merlin friggin happy as a goat) a diesel most likely. I have never had any issues with maintaining, operating or depending on my unleaded motors, but I think it is time to step up a little....

But see, now I am outside my comfort zone and in a world I need some guidance in. Ford powerstroke, GM Duramax or the Dodge Cummins..... this is also part of my debate.

I am also a weirdo for looks, styling and certain attributes, so my final descision will have some interesting markers I am sure.

What I am looking for from the group here on MTS, is what are the PRO's AND the CON's of lets say the F250, the GM2500HD and the RAM2500?

Also, i am not ruling out the 1 tons either.... but that is about as big as I would EVER need.

Here is what the truck will need to be able to do, and I am pretty sure, even the 3/4 ton may be over kill.....
* Decent on fuel consumption
* Dependable on both cold and hot days
* Pull at least a 20' ++ trailer, probably a tag-a-long, but perhaps a goose neck
* Comfortable transport four + adults.

The third is why i really am looking for the truck. it will basically be a toy hauler, but I do tend to over work them. The predecesor was abused to the hilt, and she took everything I threw at her and smiled back. Makes me a little partial to the Ford SD, but what do you think?

I am NOT and I mean NOT going to buy brand new. I am looking for between the 3-7 year old range.

When I test drive the diesels, what should I be looking for? Listening for? asking for? What is the payload/towing capacity difference between the brands?

I know I work with used cars on a regular basis, and I sell them for a living. If I was looking for a Honda, i could handle that on my own, (which i did BTW, forgot to mention there is a new member of my automobile family....LOL) But when it comes to Diesels, I am out of my element.

Pro's AND Con's of each please. Which one would you get, and why?




OR


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you know where this is gonna go so i will try to be as un-bias as possible.. if i were looking for a toy hualer i would be going with the chevy or the dodge. as far as styling goes i just dont care for the ford that much. i love the look of the dodge and the chevy is next in line. they all have there ups and downs as far as the drivetrain goes. the duramax would be my number one with the cummins right behind it in that department.

The Dodge and the chevy pictured are ugly as sin IMO. Personally I'd be looking for a F250 or F350 SD with the 7.3, but thats just me. The cummins is a good engine, no doubts about it, but the transmissions that go behind it are less than stellar, at least the automatics anyways......

WELL !!! I"m quite insulted that my truck wasn't invited to this debate
I know... My Silverado is basically the same as the Sierra.
But for styling I prefer the Silverado over the Sierra next in styling the Ford truck is a quick second.
Personally the Dodge 250 I'm not including in the diesel debate. And many other automotive magazines don't include the Dodge truck either. The 6 cylinder Cummins just does not rank against the 8 cyl Super Duty and the 6.6L Duramax

It was just all most a year ago I was doing this very serve when I was shopping for my truck.
I learned a lot before and after my purchase. The one thing I did learn is, don't ask the salesman about any important information you need to now (I don't mean to insult) But the saleman will tell you what you need to hear and what you want to hear, without lying in order to close the deal.

I hang out at some Superduty forums and Duramax forums... Didn't do much posting but I did a lot of reading.
In my one year of research I decided to go with the LMM duramax and the 6 spd Allison transmission
Granted : Ford had more horsepower at the time. The combination was not working well The rash of customer in-satisfaction with the fuel economy and the pulling power swayed my vote.
Moto Trend youtube video somes it up best.

Once I found my trucks I was interested in: I recorded the VIN# and ran the numbers on the internet or at the dealership to see the vehicle's history. Then I asked the dealership for a list of recalls and bulletin on the vehicle.

Well you did things the way they should be done. Tonight I made some stops on my way home and took some closer looks. I test drove one of each.... seriously... It was way too much fun...


Okay, back on target here.... I could not find any 7.3l in my area. but there are a ton of 6.0's. So in fairness to the comparison, i took one out. Now I am a little biast to the brand, so I found a sweet one to drive... and was mildly impressed..... It was a 2005 Lariat and sitting on a huge lift and tires......

Actual pic.


http://www.aclcars.com/newandusedcars/2868/815964/22d4622e-d624-4376-b414-0ee5e5004720/none/2005-Ford-F250SuperDuty.aspx

Truth is, that 6.0 was LOUD, and knocked more then the other two! But it was a sweet ride.


Then I headed just up the road to a local dodge dealer and test drove a 2006 2500 SLT. Now this, i did not like really at all. the ride was a little shoddy, and the salesman was a little rude. Plus it did not have the giddyup I was really hoping for. Truthfully, i think the HEMI would have been the better choice.

Actual pic.


http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=54434516&listingRecNum=12&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26alMdId%3D21802%26mkId%3D20012%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21802%26rd%3D20%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D17512%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20012%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national


Lastly I headed over to a GMC/FORD/CHEVY dealer which was on my way home. They had a 2008 Sierra with the 6.6l. Now out of the three, I have to admit, this one had the best ride. the throttle was more responsive, the steering was a lot more stable, AND this motor was SILENT. When I got into it, it roared, but sitting at Idle, it was quit. very impressed....

Actual pic.


http://apps.dealerconnection.com/dealers/whitmoyerford/used-inventory?_flowExecutionKey=_cF78F7C70-9A1A-1996-3982-FA77CA73CD6C_kF47E40FD-786D-06F4-08E3-372DC8B1BC6B&_eventId_vehicledetails=true&vin=1GTHK23648F171951&dealerPACode=01342&certifiedPreownedImg=false







Now tonight I was not interested in price, options or color. i was just driving for the feel and noticable differences between the diesels and the brands. Granted, I will probably still find a 7.3 to drive, and a newer 6.4l from ford. The last place had one, but I was not into wasting the salesman's time.

My conclusion thus far.... i liked the GMC the best. and as for Trux comment earlier, oddly, i am more a fan of the exterior styling of the GMC in the later years then i am of the Chevy. I don't know why, it just grabs me more. but everyone is different.

In the past I have bought out of need, want or based on a notion of what it could be. i have bought vehicles because of status, like my BMW, I have bought vehicles purly on looks like my old Civic, but this time I am not letting just the minor details affect my final descision making process. I know what i need the truck to do, what i want the truck to feel like and where I would like to keep my finances when it is all said and done. So although this will be a very long process for me, I think I had a good day.

So basically, i think I am ruling dodge out all together. I am still drawn to Ford due to looks and previous experience, but I really liked the Sierra tonight... so I am not sure yet. Are there any other opinions between those two brands that may be applicable?

that a boy.. lmao..

Thanks for taking us along on this awesome time of your life. Some people don't like shopping for vehicles. I for one don't like shopping for a new truck. But I enjoy watching others shop.
Well I have to say... I'm glad you've quickly narrowed it down to Ford and GMC
I'm glad you enjoyed your GMC test drive.

Well, you would think that I would NOT be a fan of shopping for a car since for more then 65 hours a week, I sell them. but oddly, I cannot get enough sometimes.

I am not looking to pull the trigger for a few months, but narrowing it down now will allow me to keep my eyes open for the right deal when it comes my way. I have to finish a few things to the Jeep for a planned ORV trip this spring, then i have to get some nescesary remodeling done on my home. But once this is done, then i am going to get really serious about this and actually pick something up.....

Thanks for indulging my little trip so far though, and I am sure it is not over, I still have to pick one of these two...LOL...

Where is robert anyways? i figured his opinions would have been all over this thread by now?!?! LOL

there are hole in your driving tests so far, you have to realize that there is a HP war going on, it has been going on for a loooooonnnngggg time, every few years the truck makers up the ante with a new power rating, and powertrain improvments etc....

the powerstroke:
99-03 - 7.3L HEUI, 275hp/525tq, fixed vane turbo 4r100 torque shift auto, or zf-6 standard
pros: pretty reliable, cheap to maintain
cons: old, loud, under-powered

03.5-07 - 6.0L HEUI, variable vane turbo 325/560 5r110tqshift auto, zf-6 standard
pros: can be quick
cons: loud, head-studs stretch too easily, egr failures...

07-10 - 6.4L HPCR, sequential turbos, fixed vane/vvt 350/650 improved 5r110 auto, zf-6 standard(very rare)
pros: powerful, quiet
cons: heavily bogged down with emissions equipment

basic body style hardly changes, minor cosmetic changes to front and rear
All use dana axles, SFS, and all have terrible mileage, the 6.0 and 6.4 especially so

Cummins:
03-04 - 5.9L HPCR, 305/555, fixed vane turbo, 48re auto, nv5600 standard
04.5-07 - 5.9L HPCR, 325/600, fixed vane turbo, 48re auto, g-56 standard
pros: moderately quiet, easy to modify, easier to work on, can make ENORMOUS power (1000hp) with stock bottom end, and pretty good fuel mileage
Cons: auto trans is garbage unless you build it, then it can be extremely reliable

07.5-10 - 6.7L HPCR, 350/650, Variable Vane turbo, 68re auto, g-56 standard
pros: powerful, its a bored and stroked 5.9L, can be very quiet
cons: reliability issues, turbo problems, cylinder washing leading to fuel in crank case

All use AAM axels, and are SFS, and ride is an issue, the 5.9L are extremely tough and reliable, they also can get really good mileage (20-21mpg un-loaded)

Duramax: All are 6.6L, GM uses a engine code to differentiate between the different series of engines
01-04 - LB7 HPCR, 300/520, fixed vane turbo, Allison 1000 5-speed auto, zf-6 standard
pros: easy to modify, and can get pretty good mileage
cons: injectors

04.5-05 - LLY HPCR, 310/605, Variable Vane turbo, allison 5-speed auto, zf-6 standard
pros: injector problem fixed, good mileage, quiet
cons: over heating issue while towing

06-07 - LBZ HPCR, 360/650, VVT, Allison 6-speed auto, zf-6 standard
pros: every issue with previous duramaxes were fixed, strongest block, OK mileage, powerful, few emissions equipment
cons: has EGR and Catalytic converter and mileage suffers for it, has an issue with cracking pistons when too much injection timing is used

07.5-10 - LMM HPCR, 365/660, VVT, Allison 6-speed auto
pros: most powerful/refined of ALL these engines, very strong engine, very few problems
cons: Emissions!!! the mileage suffers badly because of the emissions equipment

AAM axles in all duramax trucks, all are IFS, the ZF-6 was discontinued in 06 with the LBZ, these trucks are the quietest of all

HEUI = Hydraulic/Electronic unit injection (this system uses high pressure Oil to pressurize the fuel in the injector)
HPCR = High Pressure Common Rail (uses a High pressure fuel pump that pressurizes fuel in a rail before it reached the injector, all HPCR trucks use solenoid acutated injectors, except the 6.4 powerstroke which uses Piezio-electric actuated injectors)

Hope that helps Junior

Im tellin ya, get an old bastard like mine. 20+mpg, NO emmissions junk, NO computers, parts are cheap, and if you add a turbo they will run circles around a first gen powerstroke, and dead reliable to boot.

Allow me to quote a fella from FTE:

Chevy_Eater wrote:

The power that the newer rigs have isn't there, but as long as you're not one of those guys that has to power his 35 foot fifth wheel 85 miles per hour up Mt. Mother F**ker you'll find the IDI's have plenty of power to get what you need done.

Brightwhiteram.....
That was a very good post, and exactly what i was looking for.





As for the "holes" in my test drives, i simply drove what was availible for now. I was not really concerned this time with power, mileage or such. more so ride comfort, engine noise and the general feel. now I realize that to even be fair, they should all eb the same year. but I am sure before I pull the trigger and actually buy something, i will go out on many many more test drives....

I have and maintain 10 diesel 1 ton trucks on the mine site. 4 duramax, 2 powerstroke 6.4, and 4 5.9 cummins. As far as services go, I found the cummins a tad easier than ford, and ford easier than duramax. The duramax is quiet, and gets better fuel consumption(we go off hour meter rather than miles) and the cummins isn't far behind. If you get the 6 speed manual, the cummins are good motors, and the trans are really good. The allison behind the duramax is a really good trans, and hold up super well. I cannot say that I like the fords, they don't handle the 14+ grades that our trucks run on. I've had to replace both of the ford trannies. The engines are pretty good. I do like the ford and dodge better for the solid front axles, but the Chevys(GMC) don't have many issues, which is suprising considering what they get put through. The chev is a more comfortable ride than the other two IMO.... I haven't towed with the Fords, but have with the other two, and they both pull really well. Imo, I would go with a GMc, as I have had the best luck with them.... Oh, and for what you desribed, todays 3/4 tons are built plenty heavy to handle what you are going to do.... I wouldn't go with a 1 ton, especially since the differeces between a 2500, and 3500(both chevy and dodge.... Don't have 3/4 ton fords) are suprisingly not much between a 3/4 and single rear wheel 1 ton....

thats some good real world experience there batty

Your right Junior, if you plan on buying a truck i would narrow it down to a year or say a different series of engine

my top 4 would be

#1 2006 chevy or GM
#2 2008 chevy or GM
#3 2005-06 Cummins
#4 2008 6.4

i have only had experience with all of them except the ford, but they are all pretty reliable and plenty heavy duty and powerful

my LBZ pulls the bosses 4500lb tool trailer like its not there and when unloaded I have gotten anywhere from 18-22mpg on the highway(with a straight pipe, modified intake, and 65hp tune)

John, the IDI is reliable, but so are these new trucks, i dont think Rob has had a lick of trouble from his 03, he drives like grandpa compared to me and takes care of his rig
I have been less fortunate, but I also have this habit of pushing my vehicles beyond their original purpose, and i usually end up paying for it

to be honest the most reliable truck you could buy is going to be a 94-98 12v cummins w/ NV4500 trans, the body will rust or rattle off before the engine quits, but they are no where near as comfortable or quiet, or clean running as these new trucks

Yea the new trucks are reliable, but look at the buy in price

I've had 4 IDI diesels on the ranch... 2 were gems... The others..... Well... Can't say those words here.

lol it can be hit and miss, sometimes ya get good ones, sometimes ya get ones that need alot of love. But whatever whatever

Junior, most everything I was going to say has been said, so i'll just add this.

If you want a Ford; Buy a 1999-2003 7.3L or a 2008-2010 6.4L Stay away from the 6.0!

If you want a Dodge; Buy a 2003-2007 or a 1998-2002 with a manual transmission only!

If you want a GM; Buy a (LBZ or LMM) 2005/6-2010

Anyone of those will give you a ton of service with almost no issues. And they will tow/haul anything you can hook to them. With any diesel, stay away from tuned trucks!

One test I tell everyone to do when looking at a used diesel, start the truck, open the hood, take off the oil fill cap. It should have little to no smoke and any smoke (white colored) it does have should come out smoothly. Any pulsing or chugging plumes, walk away. That is almost a guaranteed sign of a cylinder with lost compression.

Any other questions when you get to the lot, call me.

Good luck.